Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats: My hunch was that these injury-prediction theories were all biased by a number of factors. Injuries are by their nature very random, so I am skeptical whenever someone claims to have a valid prediction system. The bottom line is that injury-prediction systems usually fail to account for systematic biases in their analysis.
First, it's always true that athletes will tend to get more prone to injury as they age. Therefore, any comparison of a year "after" something else, such as RB carries or additional innings pitched, will appear to have a slightly higher injury rate than other years.
Second, high-IP or high-carry years are by definition healthy, non-injury years. Whenever you make observations about seasons "after" those years, you are also making observations about "other than" those healthy years. You're removing known healthy years from the data sample, and years left over in the sample will appear to have higher than normal injury rates. But the higher rates are just an illusion caused by the exclusion of healthy years.
It all depends on the type of analysis performed. It's not perfectly clear what the exact methodology the Verducci effect is based on, but I think it's fair to expect explicit and rigorous research on it before we buy into it.
RS: You talk a lot about different types of bias in your articles, including the popular 'Myth of 370', can you explain why that's important for a fantasy player?
For fantasy players, the debunking of myths like 370 mean that all top players can be expected to regress to the mean following high-performing seasons. The higher the performance, the stronger the regression. So the best bet is to go after the top guys and not worry about curses, injuries, etc. Sure, they'll tend to regress, but so do all the other guys too.
RS: One of the reasons we can't dig deeper into some methodologies is because they are 'proprietary'; do you get better observations out of academic papers?
Burke: Actually, I don't have blind faith in academic papers either. Many of them are peer-reviewed by professors who don't understand the nature of the sport, and gross errors in logic get through. I'm very, very skeptical of anything that calls itself proprietary. Whenever I read that word, I think "unverifiable and off-limits to criticism." I can understand why people want to protect their intellectual property, but they should also understand why readers should be skeptical.
RS: I've heard the 'age 27 peak', expect regression from postseason pitchers as facts across many platforms. What would be the best advice to understand the difference between causality and correlation?
Burke: I would agree there is probably a peak physical age, and players will tend to decline past their late 20s, especially those who are primarily dependent on their speed instead of strength or power.
Correlation does not equal causation. This is the first rule of inferential statistics, and it is violated 100 times a day in sports, business, and politics. All players tend to regress toward their mean--their true performance level from which their stats will vary from year to year. Phenomenal (or "outlier") pitching seasons are characterized by lots of things going right all at once--health, luck (BAPIP), solid defense, weak opponents, etc. Those things are far less likely to continue than they are to revert to normal, so we should expect pitchers with the very best seasons to regress the most the following year. And since we find the best pitchers leading their teams in the postseason, very often they will appear to have bigger drop-offs in performance the following year. The tendency to decline is not due to the postseason at all, just due to the fact they had a higher perch from which to regress. Playoff appearances and statistical declines may be correlated, but one doesn't necessarily cause the other.
RS: Finally I loved the idea and inspiration behind your Fantasy Football Projection system. This is one must-have projection system, even just for name only purposes...
Burke: "Koko" the fantasy football monkey is named after George Costanza's nickname at Kruger Industrial Smoothing. The system is a simple regression from the previous year's fantasy performance and is intended to be the bare minimum baseline of predictive accuracy. If other fantasy predictions aren't much better than Koko, they are a waste of time. My hunch is that outcomes in fantasy football are so subject to randomness, such as freak injuries, that even a monkey can be just as competitive as any expert out there.
When not claiming Fantasy expertise, Ryan writes about Mid-Major College Basketball at SienaSaintsBlog.com.
Verducci's 2009 predictions and days on DL in 2009
ReplyDeleteLester - 0
Hamels - 0 (DTD 16)
Billingsley - 0 (DTD 15)
Lincecum - 0
Kershaw - 0
Eveland - 0 (minors for poor performance)
Pelfrey - 0
Danks - 0 (DTD 9)
Jurrjens - 0
Niese - 60 day DL (hamstring)
So one guy actually sent to the DL and one pitcher sent to the minors.
And it's not like Niese was having arm troubles either.
ReplyDeleteThe "Effect" just seems very arbitrary.
I'm not saying the Verducci Effect is perfect, it is generally a good preseason fantasy tool to use to drop some pitcher on your draft sheets.
ReplyDeleteWhile most of these pitchers haven't visited the DL in 2009, a lot of Verducci eligible pitchers have seen a drop off in production. It could just be regression to their true skill or it could be them pitching through minor injuries
Change in K/BB
ReplyDeleteLester - much better
Hamels - minimally better
Billingsley - dropped
Lincecum - better
Kershaw - Same (2010 Regression 1.98 K/BB)
Eveland - dropped in limited MLB innings, similar in AAA)
Pelfrey - Similar, slightly down
Danks - slightly down
Jurrjens - same
Niese - better
So only 2 players got worse in Billingsley and Danks, but I'm willing to bet that accross all second year pitchers the number with skills that fall is much greater than 20%, but most don't get 200 IP to prove themselves.
This was also done on the 2006 season at THT and they found pitchers with heavier work loads actually got better.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-year-after-effect/
Troy...You are certainly starting to sway me into the region of no longer believing in the Verducci Effect but I'm still not ready to admit that it's useless.
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with Brian from the article, the Verducci Effect does fall into the "Myth of 370" category. Verducci cut off pitchers like Nolasco and Ervin Santana because they were born a couple months too late. It seems silly when you think about that.
Good article, though. You've made me an almost-believer.
"Agree to slightly agree."
It could still have it's uses, but I think looking at this list I wouldn't have drafted Kershaw, Eveland, Pelfrey or Niese anyway. They had poor K/BB to start with and even Jurrjens is average.
ReplyDeleteThe other 5 would have been on my list, but with a regression I would expect from career years I would have labeled them overvalued anyway.
If you use the Verducci Effect I would leave it for when you have 2 pitchers ranked the same and need to make a final choice and one broke the 30 IP increase rule.
Does it make any sense to seek out the guys who got more than thirty innings over their career high? If there really is no statistical injury risk then maybe the increased innings are a weak sign that the pitcher has gotten better, i.e. has matured, changed pitching styles, learned a new pitch, etc. Especially for a young pitcher it seems like an increase in innings might in certain cases be a sign that he has started to come into his own. Either way it doesn't seem very significant but philosophically I could argue both ways about increased innings and didn't the THT study find that pitchers actually got slightly better after the innings jump?
ReplyDeleteAaron... if a young pitcher has a big innings jump of 30+ then he probably had his best season of his young career. In terms of drafting for fantasy purposes, that pitcher is likely to be overrated on draft day since it's likely that the pitcher will regress to his true skill in most cases.
ReplyDeleteSo, while this list may not prove all that significant in predicting injuries, it does do a good job of predicting pitchers that will likely regress, or be overrated. Like Troy said, if you have two pitchers equal on your draft sheet then go with the one who hasn't seen an increase of innings.
About the THT study... it is a little flawed because it doesn't include minor league innings in the equation, which can be a big part of the Verducci Effect since we're talking about young pitchers.
Yeah, I see your point, Josh. I wasn't really accounting for the inflation in perception so even if an innings jump may indicate improvement that improvement won't be as great as the inflated image that the pitcher will likely have for the fantasy drafting masses.
ReplyDeleteSo if I might bump him up a round in a draft but the competition will be taking him a round or two ahead then it doesn't do me any good anyway.